The trendy now is to put everything to genetics. Hard to escape it. Nature is winning. Nurture was the
Well, I’m being honest in my discussions with you here. I’m not avoiding the studies you present but my biases speak more to my answers than anything as perhaps yours may to yours.
You may be more drawn to large scale statistical trends and absolute sounding genetics explanations.
I tend to be more drawn towards educational psychology, child rearing, “change” motivated explanations.
But I acknowledge genetics has a very strong place. I acknowledge that statistics have their uses in determining some public policy.
Yet, I also know that modification of behavior is possible, utilizing whatever genetics one has come into the world with via proper training and enriched environments for learning.
Well, “quick fix” methods have failed. Busing in the early 70s was a flop, as were programs that brought poor black kids into rich white people’s houses for a summer. The kids would go back to their shit lives and get worse after NOW experiencing more awesome stuff they’ll never have.
Is there a limit? I don’t know. Witness the Common Core mess. Education is far from where it needs to be. Parental education programs are shit in most communities.
Yes, there’s a limit but I don’t think we’ve done much to try as a society.
I don’t have an agenda here but I do have a skepticism of pure genetic explanations for things – not just in this so I give it great scrutiny.
I have a bias towards upbringing explanations for things as I’ve always been a strong proponent of education, people’s mental and psychological development with regards to how they are treated and the effects of their self-image upon their performance in various tasks.
Likely all the things that make you cringe tongue emoticon But it’s my bias.
I can accept that the g-factor in intelligence is partially heritable yet I also hold some doubt as to the validity of the g-factor at the same time.
IQ test scores I don’t hold much credibility for but I’ll give some credence to g-factor studies, with reservations.
It’s not a struggle with my bias: it’s just recognition of it. Here, I will give an example of my bias via whatever stereotypes this may form:
I paid $$$ for a career test about 15 years ago. Long test, very detailed and while I never entered this career, I know it’s one I would do very well in:
Middle School Teacher, Special Ed. My personality through and through. That includes talented and gifted as well as slower learners. In a sense, I’m “anti-bell curve” quite deep down. That doesn’t bother me either, but I recognize it.
The information you presented is unconvincing to me. Trends are not convincing to me. Even my investing style from way back when was contrary. I see a trend, I look for the outliers.
The path of rhetoric you’ve been pursuing to convince me has been unconvincing.
The outliers you discard, I embrace. I consider all persons outliers in some statistical study of some sort. You’re an outlier in some aspects. is an outlier in some aspects.
These are what are interesting to me. The evidence you’ve been providing is not the kind of evidence that convinces me of things.
You must have multiple tactics other than these to convince. Hammers work on nails but I’m screwy.
I’m impressed by different forms of evidence than what you provided.
But we are talking. Of course you were trying to convince me. You’re trying to convince a number of people, but I don’t care about them.
I’m pursuaded by a pursuasive argument. But your arguments so far haven’t been entirely pursuasive.
Partially? Yes. I acknowledge the g-factor in intelligence may be genetic.
I acknowledge that some surveys are useful and that genetics plays a significant factor in many aspects of personality, growth potential and _perhaps_ things like IQ testing done in school environments.
So, you’re part way there. I’m willing to be convinced. You haven’t failed. But you have to add to your arsenal.
I may be the most reasonable individual you’ll come across in these debates. If you can convince me – and I believe you can – I doubt there’s too many people you couldn’t convince.
But I’ll leave it up to you. In any case, I enjoy the discussion and I appreciate your time.