predestination led to determinism led to modern scientific thinking

Predestination led to Determinism in modern times. Just follow the history chart. It’s simple.

unless you believe these concepts magically fell from the stars. They didn’t. tongue emoticon

So many assumptions in a single question. *sigh*

a) who was talking about the brain as the seat of free will?

b) who said that cause -> effect is a linear system?
c) who said there’s a physical basis for everything?

I didn’t. You did. Expose your assumptions and we’ll dissect.

As far as externalist perspectives go, yes. Phenominalist, no. I tend towards Embodied Cognition, which has a bit of both.

I’m here. I’m typing these words. I’ll start there. I chose.

Of course. There are constraints to the system. A lot of constraints.

We’re in our environment. We’re humans on a planet with gravity. I happened to be plopped here 43 years ago. I didn’t ask to be but I’m glad.
Such things are clear.
But none of that speaks of free will, just constraints to free license. Laws, society and such are a part of that too _somewhat_ although not necessarily either.

Here’s the linkup between determinism and predestination besides history:

Did you choose to type those words, or are they merely a product of Markov chains ala Chomsky?

I can agree *almost* _but_ one word: *COMPLETELY*. I don’t buy the entire closure of the system. But I don’t subscribed to Closed Universe, hence my issues with “THE UNIVERSE IS REALLY MADE OF MATH” crap that a lot of people are buying these days.

Yeah, we’re not polar opposites by any means. I just don’t hold to a prestistined/predictable/determinist system as entirely explaining my choices.

Even if I am an emergent system, I’m ok with that. Much of what I do could easily be m
athematically explained – eventually, once computers get powerful enough (we’re FAR away from that)…

…YET, it can’t predict woeirjpaoweij apew p9w8 – and that’s enough for me to say “yes, I have free will” smile emoticon

A society that believes there is no free will is a dangerous society.

Even if it is only a practical matter, culpability would go out the window because, “well, your honor, he couldn’t help it.”; and a simple study of what brains scans *really say* – and _don’t say_ will show that brain scans as evidence in court rooms are nothing more than phrenology for the modern times.

Oh you’re right of course on the distinction. it’s an important one. Determinism was an offshoot of the branch of thinking that started in modern times by John Calvin; if you follow religious movements from his time through to the origins of determinism, you’ll see the connection;

Modern determinism is fundamentally part of the Protestant Calvinist tradition in the West. Ok – take care – and I enjoyed the conversation

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