On each side of divisive issues, one is not encouraged to speak of certain things.

On each side of divisive issues, one is not encouraged to speak of certain things.

If one is pro-choice, bringing up the pain puts you in the pro-life camp.
If one is pro-life, bringing up the idea that they’re one person until the the fetus has viability (can life separately with medical support), then you’re put in the pro-choice camp.


In short, it’s a social convention. It’s not lack of awareness : it’s sticking to a political side for a ‘greater purpose’.

Each side (pro-choice / pro-life) taken to extremes, goes too far. If you take pro-choice too far, you have mothers killing their children freely. If you take pro-life too far, women have to be submissive to their husbands in all things, can’t leave the house without an escort, and have to accept being beaten as natural.

So each side holds firm to their stance and avoids certain topics in public discourse.


In my opinion, if the State wants to keep all children, then they need to develop the facilities to do so. At present, it’s inadequate. Going through pregnancy isn’t a punishment for having sex nor should it be. I consider only the mother existing until the point that medical science can remove the fetus and take care of the fetus as a separate person.

Until then, there’s just one person there.

At present, in most places it seems, fetal viability is the criteria for the point where there is another person there. I think it’s an acceptable criteria.


Looks like 24 weeks is the accepted age of generally accepted fetal viability.

As medical science improves, that will continue to drop.

Now if they could provide guaranteed maternal support for all citizens and fix the foster care system, maybe their pro-life dreams would be practical to see realized.

’til then though, pro-choice must continue.



I was born at 6.5 months, weighing 2 lbs 2 oz, dropping down to 1 lb 8 oz at one point. Died three times after being born and a few times before I was born.
It was a year before Roe vs Wade. I asked my mother if she’d have aborted me if it was legal (I was causing her medical issues and was a difficult pregnancy). She says, “No”, yet still there’s no way to know for sure.
 There will soon be an option for men who feel that women should be compelled to carry to term (except in certain cases as determined by law).I was a premie, born at 6.5 months, 2lb 2oz. There’s a chance I could’ve been aborted had it been legal and wouldn’t be here to type.I’m for all lives to be saved and given a chance.AT the same time, if I can’t take their place and can’t offer any alternatives, I’m just being a thug, imposing my will on other people to do something I can’t.
 For me to force someone to do something I can’t, and they are not in a position where they are obliged to do the thing, I have to take those decisions with a heavy heart and handle with care.People in authority, for example, have obligations to the people underneath them. They ask those under them to do things and in return are obliged to be a caretaker for those under them.It’s a symbiotic relationship. That’s how I see it.I’m in authority over others in a few realms of life. I have to compel people to do things and they must do them. The consequences of them not following through are usually natural consequences : If they don’t pay this, then something gets turned off. That sort of thing.But I don’t take it lightly.
 Here’s some math:

About 10 percent of women (6.1 million) in the United States ages 15-44 have difficulty getting pregnant or staying pregnant, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
That means: 90% of 6.1m people or 5,490,000 people could definitely be pregnant at any moment of time, at any day.It’s higher than that because puberty starts young for some women, as young as 8 years old, and some women are capable of getting pregnant older than 44 years of age.That’s a lot of people in a lot of life situations that will have to deal with a lot of complications that I can’t possibly go through at this point.For me to lightly say, based on some ideals I have, “You should spent 9 months of your life doing [x]”, while I sit back behind my computer safe and never in their bracket of ever having to concern myself with becoming pregnant… to me, is ridiculous.

 In a logic class, this is fine. It’s a hypothetical thought experiment having no bearing on reality as it stands, taking place in a fictional universe created for the purposes of discerning truth values based upon the system of logic.Just as long as no public policy whatsoever is based upon these reasonings, that’s fine.
 Why not? It doesn’t reflect reality. You can have your moral stance but many of the factors you can readily discard in a thought experiment become relevant when applied to the real world.
 Let’s apply some logic then.
Can you understand another person’s life experience that you have not led?
If so, how?
If not, why not?
I could never buy into antinatalism although I understand the reasoning. My mother and I have had pro-life/pro-choice discussions in the past, especially when I was going through an argumentative stage.

She’s basically an antinatalist although she probably never heard of it.

I’m not in the antinatalist camp in my ideals but in practice, I am. During a phase in my 20s when I was very religious (even in a monastery for a bit), a young friend who sometimes asked for money approached me.

[WARNING: long anecdote. Ignore if you only want a dialectic]

Usually it’s to fix a car or something and he was getting on his feet, so I didnt’ mind helping as his mother couldn’t help and her mother was too wrapped up in herself.

They were both teenagers, about 15-17 yrs old.

He approaches me at work. He has “that look” but wouldn’t talk. So, I prompted.

“You need money?”
“How much?”
After hesitation, “$330″.

My brain went in circles. “What could cost $330? Too cheap for a car repair, and his mom could give him $330…” Then it hit me.

“It’s for an abortion, isn’t it?”

He almost fell over in shock but I knew his life enough to know it couldn’t be too many things.

I didn’t hesitate. Even though I was in a super-religious phase in every other way, he’s my friend who needed help and he has to do what’s best for him and his family. Did it feel like blood money? Contribution to a murder?


But could I be pregnant? No.
Could I raise the child? No.
Could I see them losing their tenuous place in society, their home, her job, possibly his (no home, no job), take them in, fix their life?


It was a regretful necessity. No other option was viable.

If abortion was illegal? She’s still have had it… somehow. Might have cost her her life.


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