monasteries were the classic model for intentional communities.

monasteries were the classic model for intentional communities. Was in one for a bit in my late 20s (late 90s). Had a case of convertitis to Eastern Orthodox Christian for about 5 yrs. Anyway, awesome experience. I’d be fine in any intentional community, mostly.

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also, we have MMOs. Just run one, gather people. see how they behave. Or forums like this one. Any collection of people. You start to get a picture of how ppl behave in groups, subdivide, govern themselves, etc.

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There’s tons. Depends how particular you are. It’s basically my retirement or “if life gets so fucked up but I need a decent place to live”

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oh sorr – they have many names. online roleplaying games. I ran a Minecraft server for a couple of years from 2012-2014. I let them mostly govern themselves, just stepping in when I had to.

When you run one, any of them, or an online forum that gathers a lot of ppl – you start to see people patterns and it gives you a great overview of the types of human behaviors.

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Anglicans also have some monasteries.

Since I see everything in this regard as metaphorical for real phenomenon, I’m comfortable in any of these traditions. I just have to replace words in my mind with the philosophy/theology that works for me and I’m ok with it.

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Well, not so much esoteric but definitely mystical. It’s not that it’s secretive but it’s a process that you go through and everybody’s journey is different. Things “click in” when they click in.

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Hm. I mean there’s AI governments and economics out there where you input parameters and see what happens. There’s also fantasy governments and economic systems out there that compete with each other – saw a website full of them. Seemed pretty hard core.

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Yeah, even though I consider myself agnostic, (in the ‘I really don’t know” sense), the stuff that ‘clicks in’ sticks. LIke the Trinity thing, I get it now. Don’t know if I believe it but I get it. and if it’s true, it’s powerful stuff – that you can actually divinize matter and energy simply by existing and doing what you do if you’re doing it right, transfiguring the Universe, restoring it as you go along.

I like the Theosis thing. It’s not Gnosticism, although it appears that way at first, since there’s not really secret divine words and stuff, but the whole oneness / transformation thing is all there.

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Well, you put in a big request and my knowledge in this area only goes so far.

Here’s the issue you may run into: what works perfectly on paper doesn’t work in reality. That’s one of those life fact things. Run it through a computer, same thing [’cause a computer just speeds up the modelling].

Too many variables. Hurricane forecasting uses every known variable and they still can only go out a couple of days with a slight certainty range. Things involving massive amounts of people with independent minds, wills, emotional states, is even harder than weather patterns – and the weather code is millions of lines of code long.

But it’s worth trying just the same.

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I’m a fan of Neural network modeling. Here’s one with a powerful algorithm trying to ‘catch’ my face. It almost got there. But AI has a ways to go, even when we finally go quantum. [I personally would shoot for ternary logic myself but whatev – quantum’s the thing and the $ is in the research over 3D ternary circuits (or even analog at least) right now]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxQuFUPlkkQ

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One thing about govt: What makes a good govt? Lots of things. But one of the biggest ones seems to be, keeping people the least miserable while accomplishing national goals, whatever they may be. So for that, stability, consistency, a sense of fairness and justice for as many as possible most of the time. [as that prevents revolt] What makes a stable govt? Slowness. Sluggishness.

One of the briliant bits about the US govt is it’s designed to be inefficient and slow. Almost NOTHING gets accomplished, between the three at the head, plus the fed vs state fights, plus all the varoius departments, the fight between the justice system (courts) and law enforcement (cops)…

then you have the money collection… etc.

Anyway: the US govt is slow. A slow govt is a stable govt. It keeps working. People aren’t thrilled but not usually so miserable that they burn it down when frustrated. Give people the right to complain all they want – and they will – and that relieves pressure. Add freedom of association and they don’t feel lonely in their complaints.

It’s not an awful system. Could be better though.

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I wonder if there’s a decent SIMS type game that does decent govt modeling?

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I wish they had civics in school growing up, and philosophy and politics. We got “social studies”. Even Common Core (which my nephew’s going through) barely touches this stuff, and they STILL manage to make history and civilization studies BORING on purpose. Sad because it’s actually interesting.

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News is just out for themselves. Oh and education? I could write books on my thoughts on what’s screwed up about education. Bothered me since I was 8 yrs old, REALLY bothered me at 14 enough to change from public to private school…

but inefficiency unfortunately seems to be ‘the thing’ that keeps things humming along. Sucks. I want things at the speed of the ‘net. But then, you run the risk of public opinion being influence by fad over reason. So, it’s not easy.

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ust did a quick search to see what I could find in the direction of “activism in education”. [emotional / social engagement[. In this article, they refer to it as using “critical feminist theory”, which basically is conflict theory. Not the ideal article I was looking for but it’s something to point in the right direction.

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For more fluffy but still useful information, you can look up research in “Whole child learning”. Some of it is fluffy but there’s good stuff in there too. They’re all sort of based on the Progressive Education model from the early 20th century pedagogue Dewey, who *still* reads fresh 100 years later… mostly because we barely use his stuff today. He advocated child centered learning and such, something we’ve barely practiced at all since WW2 and the engineering boom.

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For me, at the age of 14, I tripped over Summerhill and a few books by John Holt, “Unschooling”, “Why Johnny Can’t Read” and stuff like that: All leading towards the concept of Unschooling.

It’s anarchistic but tempting. Inspired me to get the hell out of public school and at least find a small private school to do my high school in. Found one, 8th grade me wrote two killer essays ’cause I wanted to win the prize and did. Was worth it. The school was K-12, 200 kids total in the school, graduated with 12 kids in my class.

It was like therapy after dealing with shit public school and I actually learned. Still not perfect but it’s what I had available.

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Kids can’t have bank accounts of their own. They can’t sign shit with their names, mostly. Yet, they’re still responsible for many of their actions. Up until two years ago, this could also include life in prison but they’re finally fixing that.

They’re stuck in a system for 12 years that’s messed up. All this shit about “The Teenage Brain” is bullshit because they’re suffering from the consequences of being unable to have some basic human rights for so many years.. it’s going to have an effect on them. ugh, I could go on.

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Dude, same. 44 yrs old here. Major ADHD. [never diagnosed but when I read something about “hyperfocus” being a symptom of some cases, I *knew* that was me]

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I experiment with everything. Never bored. Never. Maybe four times a year for a few hours each. Sucks. The rest of the time, I’m on some mission.

lol same. I’m not satisfied until I conquer something to my satisfaction, then I move on to the next thing. Been working on my brain the past few years – or rather, the experience of experiencing and attempting to comprehend “who is my self” while using that self to engage completely in the moment with people in the most authentic way without a script.

Not sure what that’s called, if it is, but Iv’e been enjoying it.

One time, I decided to literally collect my thoughts. Index cards. About 6 months. Thousands of cards. Every thought. Dont’ know what to do with it, but running a business from home (and delagating most to others), gave me the time to pursue such things.

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Refreshing to talk to someone who ‘gets it’. and has the same kind of weird humility I do. Ppl call me genius but I’m not – I just get ‘into things’.

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Same :) I think I’m looking for systems of systems… overarching and intraactive patterns connecting reality. The tapestry or something. I look for flaws in existing systems. Speeds things up. Flaws don’t invalidate things but rather they show their limits or the constraints upon their systems. Knowledge silos enforce constraints. Math has constraints. Philosophy has constraints. Logic has constraints. There’s places they just can’t go, so for me, that means they CAN’T answer everything, even if they’re REALLY good at what they CAN answer. So, I keep at it.

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This is useful to me. I strive for “High accuracy, low precision”.
I do this so that I’m “in the ballpark” of truthvalues. This keeps me from the danger I see WAY TOO OFTEN of people ending up in the “low accuracy, high precision” when they THINK they’re in their “high precision, high accuracy” quadrant… all because they’re willfully avoiding the contexts.

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For example, have you ever talked to someone who had a perfectly rational, logically consistent argument that they believed to be true because of its internal consistency to the facts they had available, but was dead wrong?

That’d be low accuracy, high precision.

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My NLP experience consists of Tony Robbins tapes in the mid 1990s – and I know he’s not true NLP. I studied a little NLP after him, but his flawed but enthusiastic shadow of it was inspiration at the time.

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I did one experiment with hypnosis a few years ago. [I learned self-hypnosis through biofeedback lessons when I was 11 to control anxiety – breathing through my feet and stuff – and it works]…

..anyway, just for fun, I read a standard hypnosis script that’s used for people who are rational thinkers and just read it. I was surprised at the responses I got from my friends – it actually worked! and I was just reading a script, and not very well at that.

Love it! Didnt’ do it again, but I did it once, and it was fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPPJEYgDIEA

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lol well i’m not much for the esoterica of it. I’m more like, “Hey, here’s this thing that’s supposed to hypnotise people and you can get the script over here”, letting them in on it. I see it as an empowerment tool for them. For myself, I don’t like holding things over on people ’cause I don’t like it done on me. Yet, I find this stuff interesting, so I explore and share.

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I mean, if I wanted esoteric, I join the local Freemasons. Nothing wrong with esoteric, just never been my thing.

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I have a tendency of being flippant in areas that I probably ought to be somber. But I see hypnosis as a form of rhetoric – a tool of persuasion, so while I *use* the techniques, I also freely share the fact that I’m using them. It adds a “meta” level which can sometimes be an effective rhetoric in breaking up a debate. [I wait until I’ve ‘moved them’ (changed their position), then I show why I chose what I said and how my response is linked to what they said previously, and how it changed their mind.

I say things like, “did you notice your emotions before your agreed with me and how they shifted? This is why it worked”.

I don’t go into length about it, but I enjoy teaching rhetoric (never formally studied, just on my own), as it was the highest form of learning in Byzantine Universities (University of Constantinople),and I like to share that when I can, especially when it’s been effective against an opponent.

This way they walk away learning something that can not only bolster them against certain rhetoric temselves in the future, but more importanty, allows them to notice the subtle internal changes that occur when one is being emotionally guided towards a particular direction.

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I’m sure we will – it was cathartic for me a rare opportunity to do a brain dump on someone who ‘gets’ what I’m saying without having to provide excessive background.

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