I’d like the next Doctor Who to be something another than yet another British Isle’s white dude. Shake it up a little. Let’s see what other possibilities it lends to the character.

I’d like the next Doctor Who to be something another than yet another British Isle’s white dude. Shake it up a little. Let’s see what other possibilities it lends to the character.

===

The phrase “diversity character” sounds atrocious. It’s a hair better than “token black guy” and the like but not by much. Smacks of Northeast USA White Upper Middle Class “Save The Others” racism.

Sad thing is: The intentions are good. But they need to check their language because they end up missing the point entirely.

====

As far as wanting people wanting their identities represented? I’m fine with that. There’s been enough white guy leads with non-white guy or older white female evil characters in movies to last us another 100 years.

Just look at the first major Hollywood horror film with a black lead that DOESN’T get killed in the first five minutes. White people start complaining. They try it ONCE, and already white folks are complaining. It shouldn’t make a DIFFERENCE the identity of the lead character but it does because whenever it changes, the white folks get upset. The non-whites aren’t wrong here by wanting representation until it’s normalized because right now? It’s far from that.

====

Regeneration. Time Lords. What happened is the 1st Doctor Who was getting a little forgetful and bossy (bad combination) so they wanted to replace him, so they added a feature to his alien race: They can regenerate. They become a totally new person with a new personality and they forget MOST of their past personalities, although they retain most of the knowledge.

===

As James Bond was current (Doctor Who started in 1963), a lot of comparisons between Doctor Who and 007 have been made through the years. The main difference is Doctor Who made it a feature rather than something for audiences to try to ignore.

==

For me, I chose what side do I want to err on. Example: I’d rather be seen as a cringey bleeding heart liberal SJW rather than a white nationalist Pepe T-Shirt wearing 4chan loving woman hating Trump supporter.

You don’t appear like either of those by the way – I just like toying with extremes.

===

I never felt out of place being white or male.. The benefits are invisible until you start paying attention to other people’s experiences. I *have* felt out of place for other reasons growing up but they’re different.

Can I relate to growing up Cuban being bombarded by white media? Nope. So, when you say that was hard, I do something unthinkable:

I believe you.

====

Never said you were racist and what’s this shame thing you’re talking about?

If you don’t like how they make a movie, make one the way you like. Simple as that. No need for you to get all Social Justice Warrior all over me.

====

I don’t mind SJW’s like you  but really, you don’t represent me

====

Thing is, you don’t feel white. But you are.
I don’t feel white or male. But I am.

If I could wish myself into GENERIC BEING I’d do it. But I’d be fooling myself.

What Becky’s talking about is media. Movies. TV shows. News broadcasts, etc. It’s been white for a long time. Now that there’s some non-whites showing up in traditionally white media, what happens?

====

Two different rulebooks is what’s going on. One is set far off in the future when all people are equal already but doesn’t exist yet. That’s the one saying there’s a double-standard. It assumes already existing equality that isn’t there except in Star Trek dreams.

The other rulebook is the world-as-it-is and we’re in the process of trying to get *to* that “someday future”. That’s an annoying, painful process for all involved.

===

I was never into comics but I *did* buy an issue of “Superboy” when it came out. One issue I think. It was *so* ridiculously bad I had to have it. He had sunglasses on and a mid 1990s swag pose. It was embarrassing to look at and I had to have it.

===

I liked Robin’s awkwardness but I was a fan of the 60s TV show. I wasn’t a comic fan but I liked the shows.

===

I don’t work in the industry so I don’t know the extent of how difficult it is for actors / producers / directors etc. I only see the final products.

I don’t watch movies often. I *did* see Wonder Women. Saw a trailer a few months back, looked good. Someone asked me to go with them. I went. Great movie, I thought. Afterwards, I read up on it because I was surprised to see a woman’s name as director. Maybe her stories of struggling to get it made is just marketing fluff but I liked it.

====

When it comes to comic characters, here’s how I look at it:

a) They’re generally intended for children. Adult fans will have to deal.
b) Can children handle that this version of a character is black now but was once white? Yes. They don’t think twice about it.
c) If it helps some kid out there feel represented and inspires them to become their own heroes in their own lives? I’m for it.
d) If adult fans have issues with it, then they can get online and complain about it.

====

I know it’s not you.

But we’ve tried the “deep down we bleed the same color” for achieving equality. It makes white people feel good about themselves but did it work?

====

I forget to look at people’s externals most of the time but for me it’s a testament to my ignorance rather than an elevated quality.

In my world, there’s just “what’s inside that counts”. I see individuals. People, like you, that see people as individuals I recognize as “individual seers” as it were.

But… and this is something I struggle with constantly – by doing so, I end up missing things. I get confused by things.

When people talk about large groups of people; identity this, identity that, they often don’t make any sense to me. Wherever the identity is elevated, whether it’s “we’re white and it matters” or “we’re women and it matters” or “we’re men and it matters”, I would find that very confusing.

I still do. But once I could “see” that I’ve got a butt ton of blind spots – blind spots that are no fault of my own – I started seeing it. It’s annoying to be honest. I don’t want to be able to see it. But I can see bits and pieces of it.

For example, I could never understand Christian fundamentalism. They still seem alien to me. Yet, I have a slight glimpse now thanks to comprehending a tiny piece of what the identity thing is for people that are like that… which, is a *lot* of people.

Tribes. Tribalism. These are my people. They are like me. I am like them. We are one. It’s not something I’m used to.

====

Some words still seem “empty” to me, devoid of real meaning.

Heritage for example. I’m 45. You’d think by now I’d ‘get’ what heritage means. But really, I don’t. Never did. I understand a *tiny* bit of it, but really? It’s a 99% meaningless word to me. And yet, to vast swaths of people, it’s everything.

===

I find most documentaries just try to prove some point and I end up feeling led on, so I generally avoid them.

====

Well, I’m not in the fandom so it’s hard for me to say. The only thing I came closest to fandom is Doctor Who. Started watching it with my grandmother when I was 8. I’m 45 now. A lifer.

With Doctor Who, his character changes (regenerates) every few years into somebody new. While he hasn’t yet been black or female or asian or whatever, he’s alien, so anything’s possible.

So to me, the idea of characters changing their looks for whatever reason seems perfectly reasonable, especially if they’re not human.

====

Oh it’s in the same reality. He physically changes into a new person. New personality and everything. He forgets most of his previous personality. It’s kind of unique to Doctor Who I guess, although 007 came close in a way.

===

I hate reminding myself that I’m human too but I am. Even if I’m not, I’m still subject to all the rules of humanity, even those parts I don’t understand. Still trying to.

====

I guess in my mind I’d see it as style changes, much like how a new artist joins in and draws a character a different way or changes a few catch phrases.

You should hear my 12 yr old nephew sometimes. He loves spongebob but hates how they animate it now. “Too 3D” he says. He also hates how they changed Minecraft. I suspect he’ll always be complaining about “the way things used to be”. He’s an authenticity nut too. I can be with some things – actually with a lot of things. Not art or music though.

====

I had to look him up . So that’s Sherlock? Yeah, Stephen Moffet does that show too. He’s leaving Doctor Who right now. Some fans love Moffet, some hate him to death. I’ve seen a few episodes of Sherlock and it has a Stephen Moffet feel to it. I know I’d easily get hooked on it if I let myself.

From what I’ve seen of the guy, he’s a total Doctor Who type actor, so I suspect I’d like him in anything he does. I see his name attached to a few comic characters off to the side, so I guess he’s becoming somebody? I’m all for it.

====

Oh wow. It downs like a downer but many documentaries are. I appreciate the summary ’cause I know I probably won’t watch it.

The “black criminal” is at least partially a media-made myth. In the 80s, street gangs, thugs, inner cities – these are all white ways of saying “black people”. Black criminals are criminals, white criminals committing the same crimes usually have mental disorders.

But it starts in how kids are treated in schools, especially with mental health. It’s hardly improved since I was a kid too. Just about as bad as it ever was.

====

Look up the “School to Prison” pipeline. It’s sadly not even that exaggerated. Most direct case of that I know of is a judge in Pennsylvania that was shipping black kids that showed up in his courtroom to the for-profit prisons for a kickback. But usually it’s more everyday and subtle than that.

====

I grew up in 1 square mile 1/2 Italian American 1/2 Irish suburb in New Jersey.

People regularly identified with something or another. A town away, there were neighborhoods of different groups, some gangs and such.

I always felt out of place yet not as out of place as the 5 black families in town felt. Very white town. Had a short crush on the black clarinet player in 7th grade. Nice girl but I was too chicken to ask her out.

In town, I identified as a Boy Scout. My church (Methodist) I sort of identified with but only so much as to say “not Catholic” but not that strongly. I just thought of myself as ‘nice guy”.

There were heritage things all around. I enjoyed going to them of course. There was the Irish bar with the irish songs, the Italians had their mini mob families and restaurants (the ones I knew to stay away from and the others I knew I could go to)… but I was always an observer to heritage things, never participating. So whatever they “got” out of it, I never really did. Even at home, food was multicultural. My mom married an Egyptian Muslim when I was 12 (lasted two years), so even the religious thing wasn’t a big deal to me.

So I guess “eclectic”? Maybe that’s my heritage. I dunno.

====

Mom worked for the Prosecuter’s Office (same as District Attorney elsewhere) and I got to hear stories growing up of some of the shit local cops would try to pull. Some got away with it, some didn’t. The courts + cops were always at odds and the police departments were all “old boys clubs”.

One of the first women to get on the Elizabeth NJ force was hated by the others including her superiors. She got sent ALONE to the worst parts of town late at night by her superiors. [even then, they were supposed to be in pairs] She did it and did fine but when the Prosecutor’s Office heard about it, they had a fit.

It was fun hearing about sting operations. Favorite was their costume guy. He once went undercover to investigate local Gypsies for six months. Almost got caught a few times. Learned about forgeries and stuff. Great stuff for a kid to experience.

====

I want to see Doctor Strange: I hear the specialfx are well done.

I *could* be a film buff but I’ve been on a “no TV / no movie” kick for about five years now. it’s not strict: I break it all of the time and always watch Doctor Who. Been trying to keep my head clear from scripted storytelling and I’ve been nose deep in Wikipedia and research for various things. No idea why. I figure the movies will wait for me when I’ve got some problem and have to lay still for days/weeks (hope not!), or if I finally get bored of research /creative projects.

====

Minecraft? Oh yeah, it’s always changing. But it’s the kinds of changes that only an enthusiast would notice. New mobs added, subtle game play changes, the rendering, stuff like that. I think he’s making a big deal of nothing but I like changes.

====

Oh yeah :) At least in New Jersey for sure but I think I’ve seen some here in Naples Fl too. One way you can tell is the baby carriage. Seems too big and out of place. Or the way they beg. It’s not like American beggars.

====

You *might* think they’re Italian American if you didn’t know better but it’s different. Culture’s different.

====

Reason for the big baby carriage? Holds more stuff when stealing shit.\

hey’ve been all over Europe and America. The ones I was familiar with seemed to have an accent that seemed like some kind of strange italian accent. I would’ve thought Sicilian Italian but I found out otherwise. No idea where they came from originally; their families are insulated.

They seem themselves as a little more than human and non Gypsies are about the level of dogs to them. So, ripping off non-Gypsies is ethically not a problem because they’re not ripping off real people. We’re not real people to them. It’s a strange culture.

====

But the thing is, it’s the equivalent to, “Shut up, sit down, everything’s fine. You have nothing to complain about because of these reasons I am giving you.”

===

That was when Martin Luther spoke, almost 50 years ago. There’s other black people now that also have things to say.

====

They forgot to inform law enforcement agencies, community planners and most of the entertainment industry. Good political speeches and ideals but when you hear a lot of people complaining, there *might* be a reason for it.

I’m lucky to be in position where I can be dismissive if I want to be. I listen because I want to but I don’t have to.

====

“Oh, are they still complaining? Honey, didn’t that nice black guy with the mustache fix that in papa’s time?”

“Oh yes, honey. We gave them want they wanted and now they’re just like us. But now they want more.”

“More? oh dear. They should be more like that Lutheran guy”

“Yes, yes they should.”

====

I believe in merits ultimately. But it has to start with an equal footing which is far from here.

As it stands, there’s still a “them” way of looking at it. “Aren’t they satisfied with what we gave them?” That’s not an equality attitude, more like a “held hostage” attitude.

I believe in Star Trek futures of equality but we’re not there yet for reasons that could fill books and probably have.

====

You did a good job of explaining yourself as well.

But the subtlety is an easy one to miss, the subtlety I’m bringing up, one that I still miss most of the time but work on seeing.

Until white Americans see black Americans as equal Americans, and not as “them”, there’s automatically an unequal footing. With an unequal starting point, what may *seem like* “oh no,’they’ are getting ahead of ‘us’ now”, is more “they’re just starting to catch up but still behind”.

Why behind? Because white Americans can still put them “back in their place”, legislatively or socially. That’s no equal footing.

The way I’m starting to look at it is: Some of America is not equal to some of America and this has to change.

====

I’m not afraid of competition, especially not from fellow Americans.

===

As a white male American I sometimes get that “oh no they’re taking over” feeling — just for a moment.

Example: if I walk past the TV and news is on, I see mostly women newscasters.

For just the slightest moment, a flash goes by in my head of annoyance. “Where’s the men?” then I think of “Well why are teachers mostly women?” then I remember, “Ok, equality at lower pay scale but with representation at least”.

This all takes one second. Flashes through my head. A series of images and a few words (less than those). It’s because I grew up with the standard “Male white lead newscasters with female newscasters for the “human interest” segments.

But what is it really?

“This doesn’t look like my childhood”.

I don’t hang to it, and the flash that goes by is less and less common. But implicit bias is hard to shake or even be aware of.

====

I’m not even saying “Every white guy should make [x] changes”. These are choices I’ve made for myself. But I feel remiss if I say nothing.

====

I like to put myself in the shoes of different characters and imagine what *I* would do instead… or if I could do what they are doing.

Sometimes I can, sometimes I can’t but I never find myself matching up to the writer’s ideas. Doctor Who is my lifetime favorite and even there, I sometimes put myself as the Doctor or as an extra passenger, or as a bystander to events, or even as a material object.

Yet, I can allow myself to be moved by a character, to relate to their experiences to the point that I feel what they’re intending me as the audience to feel, as I become them for a short moment or two.

It’s rare that I allow that to happen. I’m usually messing around with the script or dialogue or changing things around while watching something. But if they’ve put together a really good presentation, I’ll treat it like a rollercoaster ride and let them take me where they want.

====

I like when I can achieve “suspension of disbelief”. I *want* to be led by the story. Give the people a chance to tell their story and for me to play the role set for me as the audience.

I still end up making changes as I watch, looking “off camera” or putting myself behind a window overlooking the scene. Perhaps that’s part of suspension of disbelief: getting involved in the story.

====

Kids do it too. Pick an average Pokemon player around 10 yrs old who has been playing for a few years and they’ll complain about new Generation stuff.

====

Oh! You’re trying to fix the entire story to your own standards. Wow.

===

Well, I like to put it this way: You don’t have to care. I don’t have to either. I wouldn’t want to be in a position where I *had* to care.

===

think it’s ridiculous when they try to fill a quota. That said, maybe it beats doing nothing. Quota type setups are sort of like “having to” buy chocolates for a girlfriend on Valentine’s Day. Yeah, it’s forced but doing nothing is worse.

===

You can get amazingly far by faking things correctly. Even when everybody knows it’s faked, maybe it’s “best effort”.

====

If it’s irrelevant, then changing it shouldn’t matter so much to you.

====

Maybe this is one of the ways they’re working on it. If a character’s race is irrelevant to you, then changing it shouldn’t matter to you either. Meanwhile, maybe it’s helping someone else out there.

====

I liked him in Fresh Prince. It was the only place I accepted him as a rapper. Outside of the show I couldn’t take his rapping seriously. Too whitebread / school-friendly.

===

Every kid under the age of 15 knows the theme song. Subject of memes for years now. I *think* one of the kids channels has been running it in repeats or something. Between that and Full House, early 90s nostalgia is big among people who’ve never been there.

====

But I ask: So what? Let’s say it’s done in a calculating manner. “We simply MUST have a Tongan Hulk!” [I wish they would]

The Tongans know it’s just a pat on the head. But it beats nothing.

====

Stories usually hinge on stupidity or ignorance. I’d sometimes sit with my mother to watch English murder mysteries through the years and it can be fun calculating the misdirection as they occur, finding the clear path to the murderer. They’re not my thing but if I happen to be watching it, it’s a fun enough game… when it’s written well.

====

I’m a problem solver by nature. Been my profession at times. I hate when real life people go around in circles… but what’s worse is when they get stuck on the wrong solution and won’t let it go.

====

What’s worse than that is when *I* get stuck on the wrong solution and won’t let it go. When I finally “see it”.. it’s embarrassing but I learn and move forward.

====

We may stand on different sides of an imaginary line on some issues  but ultimately it’s a mental challenge and a way to pass the time. Far more interesting conversations than I’d have most other places.

—-

Superficial Hollywood and you expect more depth than signalling? I think signalling is about the best they’re capable of. People who are being signaled know that too but even though it’s surface, it’s something.

It may not be the heart-felt macaroni art of the 5 year old and more like the “BUY A CARD FOR YOUR MOTHER!” that the teenager begrudingly does. But if that’s the best they can do, it counts.

====

 

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