I only take ssue with the last part of your last sentence. You’re an attendee at a large concert with lots of people who have lots of guns. You hear shots being fired. You see lots of people around you with guns. There’s panic and confusion. You visually identify who you think might be the shooter. You shoot. Someone dies. They’re not the shooter. If you watch the videos, you’ll see there was a long stretch of time before anybody could tell where it was coming from, even the large abundant police presence who were already there for the crowds and who responded immediately. In this particular case, no. You’re mistaken. There WERE a lot of people there carrying guns and they responded.

I only take ssue with the last part of your last sentence.

You’re an attendee at a large concert with lots of people who have lots of guns. You hear shots being fired. You see lots of people around you with guns.

There’s panic and confusion. You visually identify who you think might be the shooter. You shoot. Someone dies. They’re not the shooter.

If you watch the videos, you’ll see there was a long stretch of time before anybody could tell where it was coming from, even the large abundant police presence who were already there for the crowds and who responded immediately.

In this particular case, no. You’re mistaken. There WERE a lot of people there carrying guns and they responded.

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It’s a lot of people in an enclosed (high fence) space. There’s not many venues in North America that allow weapons in crowded venues.

But that’s why they have security. Police. Cameras, etc.

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One of the officials described it as “like shooting fish in a barrel.”

If there’s fish in a barrel and some have guns, the chances of someone getting hurt/killed in that barrel is much larger, especially when you consider that events like Las Vegas statistically never happen.

Of course they happened. But think of the large amount of concerts / etc that happen every day all across the USA.

Imagine they have the police/security protections they currently do.

Now imagine suddenly those venues allowed concealed (or open) carry.

You’ve just dramatically increase fish shooting each other in a barrel.

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I’m not asking for gun control/regulation/mental health screenings/etc. . I’m just saying that argument is mistaken in this case.

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Then you arm the security. Deputize the security. The bouncers are already there. They’re trained to look out for trouble. They’re not there to get drunk and enjoy a concert.

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Texas does things differently than most of the other 49 states. Florida briefly flirted with doing things the Texas way with guns but it’s too much for even Florida

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If they do what you’re talking about even in Texas they have that 51% law. It was a 3 day country music concert. You’re going to ask them to go beer-free for three days at a long country music festival so a few can bring guns without specialized training?

Handguns in high schools? Fine. There’s theoretically no alcohol there and it’s not as crowded as a 3 day concert with music and wall to wall people. Wall to wall people with alcohol and guns and it’s a logistical nightmare for organizers.

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Venues are real estate, owned by somebody, who allows the spaces to be rented out for profit.

There are magazines and websites dedicated to JUST this type of real estate use.

Maybe somewhere in there they’ve gone over the pros and cons of this stuff.

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Yeah, this would be the best source to start with if you wanted to improve venue security. You don’t start with the citizens and dusty 2nd amendment rights arguments. You look at the world of how these things operate and work down from there.

Once you’ve entered someone else’s private property, their rules rule.

“Venue Safety & Security Magazine
Created by the combined Association Alliance partners – the International Festivals & Events Association (IFEA), the International Association of Assembly Managers (IAAM), the International Association of Amusement Parks & Attractions (IAAPA), the International Association of Fairs & Expositions (IAFE) and the Outdoor Amusement Business Association (OABA) – Venue Safety & Security magazine was designed to help anyone involved in the events and venue business better focus on the critical areas of life safety and security. VSS magazine is offered free to members of all Association Alliance partner organizations.

http://www.ifea.com/p/resources/iemagazine/venuesafetyandsecuritymagazine

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I do. I have no problem with the response of the first responders at the venue. This kind of situation is extraordinarily rare in the USA.

In more dangerous countries, it’s more common for hotel security and venues to have metal detectors and luggage checks but that particular hotel complex and large concert venue would be impractical to implement such tight levels of security.

In short, it was a risky venue but minimal risk. It just so happened that lightening struck on a needle in the middle of a field last night.

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If there is corporate culpability it won’t likely fall to MGM, the owners of the venue but rather to whoever owns the hotel in which a guy managed to stockpile some serious armory over a period of a few days.

I don’t think the hotel could have done anything about it. It’s too open and connected. Too many international travel. Just “too big” to contain without ruining the ambience of Las Vegas as “the place where anything’s ok”, and with tourism as their #1, they want to appear like a Disneyland for adults.

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I know. But as Europe and the USA haven’t had the kinds of problems hotels have had in more dangerous parts of the world, they never had to implement the kinds of security measures hotels in dangerous areas have had to.

That *may* change after this. I don’t expect any changes to the 2nd amendment. I expect the normal back-and-forth over gun rights in government ending up nowhere.

But I do expect hotel hospitality start after the security checks. Not quite to the level of US airports but I expect something closer to that than we have now.

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America’s childhood is ending just a little more that’s all. We’re getting a little taste of the shit the rest of the world already knows too well.

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