Do Americans feel safer when a group of police arrive at the scene or do they concern themselves with getting caught up in gun play?

US Cops are undertrained and underpaid. Community involvement in many places is strictly on the level of “law enforcement” with the only “get to know the people in your territory” limited to “who fits profiles or has past records of suspicious activities”.

Do Americans feel safer when a group of police arrive at the scene or do they concern themselves with getting caught up in gun play?

“Oh good, the cops are here” should be something everybody who is *not* committing a crime should feel. If the people don’t feel safer with the police around, there’s something wrong with the police, NOT the people.

[or, more specifically, with relations between them.. but here’s a hint: the one who is SUPPOSED TO BE getting proper training (but isn’t) bears the brunt of the responsibility here]

What you’ve said amounts to common excuses.

BETTER police departments in the USA are getting training from their EU counterparts so they can learn something WOEFULLY absent from American policing:

Strategy.

Approach

Teamwork

Cooperation with citizens.

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Is human life a priority for US police?
It should be. It really should be.

The police are not protecting citizens if the citizens feel the need to run when they’re doing nothing wrong.

And – guess what? The Supreme Court of MA has concurred that black men *do* have a legitimate reason to run from the police when innocent.

Your next move would be to say something like “stupid liberal PC” etc etc but for a change, how about listening?

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If things are that hard compared to the EU counterparts, for whom policing seems to be picking flowers to you, all the more reason that US police should get FAR better training than they do, *especially* in the area of de escalating conflict.

After all, maybe this situation will end somebody’s life, maybe their own.

They should be trained properly.

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The reputation of the police in the USA hasn’t progressed much past here and that says a lot about a systemic problem in our police forces.

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I respect police in the USA who do a good job.
I do not respect police in the USA who murder citizens.

I was watching a livestream of the protests yesterday. The guy doing the livestream said something interesting.

He walked by some of the National Guard and said, “I was glad when the National Guard showed up. Now I feel safe.”

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http://www.killedbypolice.net/
“Statistical nothing”

Good. Very good Brett. Excellent point of view you have about your fellow citizens. Bravo.

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You’re not black. Of course you can be fine with that.

So can I. I’m also not black.

But I chose to not be fine with it.

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I wish I could blame video games for your lack of humanity. But this attitude existed long before video games.

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Also, your numbers may be off  Total number of people killed by US police in 2015 was 990.

50 mistakes out of 990 seems impossibly small. You may have to up your figure significantly.

ALSO, you can’t correlate the “number of guns” with the “number of citizens” and the number of interactions because:

A very low % of citizens who interact with police are carrying deadly weapons.

100% of US police are. Maybe we should go the way of Switzerland. Every man woman and child gets a gun. Some states are going in that direction. OK Corral. Yee-haw.

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Having a license to carry doesn’t automatically mean carry. I live in Florida too and I know a lot of people with concealed gun permits.

Are they always packing heat? No.

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But the police ALWAYS are.

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is right: You’re doing a more impressive job of advocating for stricter gun control laws than anybody I’ve heard yet.

I believe in 2nd amendment rights in general but man you’ve giving me second thoughts with these things you’ve been saying.

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While I question the veracity of “50”, I’ll move on here What happens when one of those oopsies happens?

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[I don’t believe 840 deaths by police in 2015 all required death over arrest and jail time]

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Do the police automatically put the police officer who committed the crime in prison? Restitute the family?

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Says more about the people you hang around than anything about America.

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I’d rather it be both. The criminal is a US citizen and de-escalation and proper training to allow them to deal with a variety of situations that do NOT require a gun to be pulled out is NECESSARY.

US Citizens are rising up and complaining. That shows there’s *something* amiss here.

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De escalation of conflict training needs upgrading then because there are others who are doing it better.

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Why don’t the police in the USA have full college degrees and better pay?

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Of course I do. I pay my taxes. It’s misuse is out of my hands. Cops should get longer training, better training, better psychological evaluation, less being shifted around quietly when there’s a problem, more transparency, civilian oversight.

It’s a fixable problem. There’s police unions. Lobby.

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Take responsibility for the mistakes of your fellow officers instead of blaming everybody else.

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Agreed 100%. They’re asked to enforce too many laws with too few tools. Shiny badge, 19 weeks of training and a pistol. I think we can do better as a country.

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You can’t own up to systemic mistakes. You’re thinking of cops as individuals, but “17 year olds wanting to be 50 cent” as a massive unit of people.

You can’t see the problem with that? Cops = individuals, black citizens = not. [forgettable statistical anomolies]. Nice.

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“Not my problem” is a great attitude.

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I probably walked in late after things escalated.
I guess the de escalation training you invented is working.

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There’s no magic to de-escalation. It’s also called “Calm the fuck down” lessons. Works on people, dogs and yourself if you’d try.

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You appear to be on edge that’s all. Is that edginess common among fellow officers?

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Then have a gold star for the period of time I missed. Lucky me gets the crabby side.

As far as sheltered goes? Is this the “whose dick is longer?” part of discussions? Let’s compare sob stories for whose point of view is now more legitimate?

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Fact is, Brett, there’s undertrained officers on patrol right now. That’s a problem. It’s especially a problem because more time is spent defending the honor of the thin blue line than admitting that there’s an issue that needs fixing.

Police work done honorably is honorable.

===

Fair enough. To be honest, from the start of the discussion where I entered until maybe 1/2 hour ago, I had the impression that you were in a cop family but not a cop yourself. A wanna-be. So, that colored my responses.

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Thank you. And I apologize for mischaracterising you. I grew up a tiny NJ town and knew most of the cops there by name. And for as many cops as there were in this one square mile town, there were THREE TIMES as many wanna-be cops.

They were “guns of glory” advocate, weapons collections, statistics quoting, “the only line of defense against [x] problem of the day”.

And, well, you gave off that air. So, I stereotyped.

===

I don’t know the police as well here in Naples, but there’s two cops that show up at our family parties and stuff that we know. The local schools have a nice program with a cop on campus who is the “officer friendly”, and is also available when there’s a problem a teacher can’t handle. And.. they do it right. Accountable to their actions. [florida’s laws for exposing EVERYTHING everybody does is a fantastic law, and that includes citizens like me]. And, they do a good job.

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lol well that’s ONE complaint I got about the cops here:

The Cop Swagger.

It’s not heavy equipment. It’s that “I just got off a horse” walk. Takes all I can do not to laugh. But they’re pretty good around here.

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What people want to see from police depts all around the USA is this:

a) They should be agreeable to community oversight committees, separate from the political folks in charge of the day.

b) Transparency has improved through the years – the body cams are a significant improvement and I respect their willingness, as it protects them as well.

c) More beat cops. Every day presence. Engaging with the communities they serve.

d) Moving away from the “broken window” philosophy. I believe in that once when it was popular in the early 90s but what seemed good on paper only worked when carefully applied and only in select communities with specific issues. [Newark NJ is a success story for example, but there are many more failures].

e) Related to broken window is the WoD “stepladder” approach. Needs to be modified:

drug users need counseling and mental health support.

f) Improved procedures to prevent situations. Rather than attempting to enforce ALL possible laws when on a call, enforce ONLY what’s necessary in that situation.

For example, if there’s drugs on a person and it’s a domestic violence cal, FOCUS on the domestic violence call. NOTE the drugs but don’t switch the issue unnecessarily. Let a few broken windows slide now and again. Zero-tolerance is a failure.

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