Did you ever have a friend who was born-again and wouldn’t stop talking about Jesus? Well, yeah. It’s like that.

It’s not a question of right or wrong for me here.

Did you ever have a friend who was born-again and wouldn’t stop talking about Jesus?

Well, yeah. It’s like that.


You’re not seeing the forest through all the trees.

I’m agnostic. I know many people that are agnostic, even within religious groups. The “true believer” is far less common than one might think.


when the new atheist tone-and-style came about, it reminded (and reminds me) too much of several encounters with what used to be referred to as “Jesus freaks”.

It’s the unrelenting zeal.

I’m trying to be helpful to you guys here.

Something weird happens when people agree with each other excessively. Groups form. The groups get their own buzzwords, their own style. They get their own sense of humor that becomes unique to their own kind.

This sense of humor makes sense to those within the group.

But those on the outside, it’s weird.


Truth matters to me too. Social justice matters to me too. I’ll even say, as much as I hate to admit it, yes, politics matters too.

All of those things are important.

It’s just… the whole true believer thing. It’s a turn off. That’s all I was trying to get across.


If you’re debating with a True Believer Jesus freak and adopt the same attitude and style as the True Believer not-Jesus-freak.. that’s fine.

But I’m not any of that. But I feel pushed over into that side at the mere mention of anything religious, because I’m not a 100% True Atheist.

I’m Agnostic. Some say that I have to choose: atheist agnostic or theist agnostic. Why? I’m agnostic. I don’t know. People trying to convince me either way start looking silly after a while..


If all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.

I’m not a nail.


If it’s your thing, I’m not stopping anything here. I’m trying to build up, not tear down.

It’s not the message. It’s the methodology. New Atheism is becoming an isolated group from the rest of society, even from other atheists and from agnostics. The days of “I’m an independent mind speaking independently and these are the conclusions I reached on my own accord due to study and reflection and I am not a part of any group” are gone now, when the same memes are shared, the same arguments are put forth.

I mean, if it’s your thing go ahead.

But I’d want someone to tell me if my independent style was suddenly Hipster and that people might roll their eyes at me and say, “Oh look, here’s another Hipster Clone”.

It might not make me change my style: I might happen to LIKE the Hipster look anyway.

But I’d still like to know if people were looking at me as a Hipster clone.

That’s all I’m saying.


I’d ALMOST agree to being an NDT clone, except I love history and he’s AWFUL at history. Man, is he awful at history…. and as a Science fanboy (that’s his job and pays the $$$… he does the same thing but with Science:

A+b+c+d and THAT’S WHY: *SCIENCE*!

and people cheer. I mean, that’s his job – the advocate/activism thing…

I guess I mean, forget religion/science/atheism and all that: What am I an activist/advocate of?


I didn’t invent the group name. I don’t like stereotypes. This is why I’m pointing it out, Scott.

It’s almost like a package deal. It’s got cultish qualities. I’m sure it’s purposeful and I suppose, as points out, maybe it’s a historical necessity as it was with the LBGT movement and the earlier feminist movement.

I’m not throwing anybody under buses here.

I almost hesitate to criticize at all because I know I’ll get some very annoyed responses from a LOT of people.

And perhaps that’s it, Scott. Maybe it’s become Internet Status Quo and I’m a contrary sort tongue emoticon

It’s almost like it can’t handle the slightest criticism without offense.


Anyway, I have lunch to go to.

I suppose I’m like the grandmother who says to the grandson, “I know you’re into this furry thing but must you wear the full fursuit when we go out to lunch together? How about just the tail and the cat ears?”


We’re people, not arguments. I’m not in a courtroom here.

Yeah, I suppose it’s the uppity bit. I mean, please tell me if I’m that way about something. I KNOW I’m uppity about some things, but I cant’ always see it.


Absolutely. Part of communication is negotiating not only meaning, but sensemaking. It’s a complicated process involving many factors.



Now, I’m obviously vehement about _something_. I’m being just as “freakish” as any claims I’m making about others.

Now here’s my question:

What am I being vehement about? [whether or not you agree with it?]





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