+JTB Pred That’s why I mention my preference for the Engineering Method; there’s not a whole lot written up on it – I only discovered it a few weeks ago: It does not mock past methods. (before that, I thought science and engineering were two parts of the same thing, but they’re not – not always)
Rather, it uses the term “State of the Art”. Ancient days modeled reality using their State of the Art; it was the best available methods given the resources they had at hand.
Bridges were built that stood for thousands of years; even if the theories of the nature of reality at the time involved the things you said above. Even if the engineers of the time believed such theories about the nature of things, nonetheless, they build bridges that worked.
Our current state of the art for modelling the physical realm is Physics and its accompanying partner: Mathematics.
They tend to work very well together much of the time, although sometimes they are at odds with each other and have allowed us to create some marvelous things and helped to make further predictions and discoveries.
But other areas of science are poorly supported by mathematics; and some areas of human life are poorly represented by the sciences and have better models that are more effective.
The experience of consciousness is poorly modeled by all of the sciences – every place I researched through journals (that’s where I look first as I like to know science’s state of the art) – when you get to the area of experience, they always turn to either Buddhism or Meditation or other models that are more highly developed at describing consciousness.
That doesn’t mean that they are correct: in fact, I’ve found it very annoying that the sciences, outside of psychology, has done a generally poor job in that area and I wish someone would pick up the ball already. And psychology… well, it has a lot of good in it but it has a LOT of work to be done there. “Breath deeply” is about the best advice it can offer. The average middle school coach knows how to destress his athletes better than most psychology (run around the track 5 times and work it off – much better advice than breath deep )
Can you see my thinking processes here? I’m not trying to get you to agree- I think agreement is over-rated anyhow although it’s nice – but just to explain myself a little better.