AltHill: You DO get to choose your gender because you are a PART OF society. It is not possible to separate yourself from society unless you do not socialize.

AltHill: You DO get to choose your gender because you are a PART OF society. It is not possible to separate yourself from society unless you do not socialize.

What acceptance percentage required then?

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Not same as. Part of.

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Society-as-monolith is part of the problem here. You have subcultures, groupings, politics, ways of thinking, and it’s all a mish-mosh.

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If a whole school calls a kid gay, it doesn’t make that kid gay.

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Find me the rulers of culture. All I see anywhere are intermingling subcultures.

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Sounds like democracy-in-everything though at best, bullying at worst. Gang says [x], gang has more power, gang wins everytime.

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If the group decides this is a “shit hill gender”, it must be “shi⍺t hill gender” and by its own logic, OP must abandon this hill.

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Society didn’t start the process.
First: years of “I’m in the wrong body”.
Next: “Hey, help, I’m in the wrong body”.

THEN society steps into the picture.

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OP:
“Hey fellas, I need you to reflect back to me why my lack of empathy is a moral good because [I’m only as good as the reflection you project of me back to me].”

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Meta. Why you look for support for your opinion to begin with.

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Identity is a house of mirrors but it starts with the individual’s reflection of self to one’s self.

Ok, it’s starts with Imprinting but gets more complex from there.

Regardless, the moment you can be a society-of-one, consisting of you and your reflection of yourself against the backdrop of your expectations (some socially driven, some from your own thinking), there can be a mismatch.

How other people present their reflections of you back to you can reinforce or contradict.

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Born the wrong gender and gender is a social construct aren’t contradictory.

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“born the wrong gender” is shorthand. If doctors, parents and everybody around could PREDICT properly, then you wouldn’t be assigned the wrong gender in the first place.

But that’s a mouthful. So, “born the wrong gender” is easier to say.

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thank you. I’ve been obsessed with pondering identity stuff since I was a kid, and I’m 45 now, so this is a territory I find fascinating. Found a weird anime thing a few years back – I don’t watch anime but this was good – that feels like a good reflection of my brain on this stuff.

Ah – here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu14ZyvI3Z4

I *think* there was a thing or two i disagreed with but it’s close enough to share.

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We could start expanding male prostates so they can return to effective uterus use. Maybe inflating it. Thinking about it sounds painful, but I might’ve tried it younger if it was available.

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Am I part of the two? I’m earnest.

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I wanted to be a special-ed teacher and did some work with cerebral palsy kids in volunteer but was “discouraged” (not by them but outsiders) because being a single guy with no wedding = ‘somethings off”.

This was early 90s. So, my life took different courses. I work with kids and adults fulfilling what I was driven to in other ways but not as a career.

So, I’m no troll. Gender is a pain.

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Theoretical is great exercise but when it’s your own life course, it hits hard. I never cared what gender I was. Never felt any pull towards either. Called myself “bi” in high school (’86-90), “pan” or “omni sexual” in my short college (90/91), dated whomever, didn’t matter. Tried everything. Didn’t see the thrill. Got bored of all that stuff around age 24. 45 now.

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I look and act like a guy probably. Generally seem like a Mr. Rogers type to people. So, if I’m a Mr. Rogers, it’s close as I’m gonna get.

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I’d be happy if society had room for all. Religion? Fine. Roleplaying? Fine. Just allow an easy out for anybody who’s like “f’this”.

Society of various subcultures is ok by me so long as they generally mutually respect the individual and subcultural independance given — and so long as no human rights are violated. [those written and a few that probably need to be added]. [/soapbox]

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Hard no on that last line. Tightly controlled subcultures are fine so long as there’s an escape valve that’s accessible.

Amish even have a built-in escape valve.

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I don’t know if they do. That such institutions exist is simply a reality. Do people need them? Well, what’s the goal?

Life satisfaction is a metric that can be used.

There are a lot of complex factors that go into life satisfaction.

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Supposedly, in collective cultures, life satisfaction can be derived from adhering to norms.

If that’s the case, then you win points for your argument.

I’m not sure about making “people learn how to behave” ties in.

There’s shells. Societal norms. Subcultural norms. Family norms. Friend norms. Some are institution, some are “ad-hoc”, although you *could* consider friends an institution of sorts once formed I suppose.

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If you consider ad-hoc ephemeral friendship groupings Institutions, and to maintain the grouping requires adherence to group norms, then sure. I’ll agree.

But if it’s monolithic in scope and number, I can’t.

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Nobody grows up in a bubble, of course. But the process starts at birth with two things: assignment from out in, and imprinting from in-out.

Baby’s recognition of self-as-self is a process. First signs around 3 months, much more at 6, etc.

All through that time and beyond, there’s match and mismatch with everything. This is right, this is wrong. This meets expectations, this does not. I’m allowed to express these things without punishment, I cannot express these other things for I will get punishment, etc.

[and punishment can be as simple as a an unexpected reaction].

 

Sounds like, “if we stop talking about race, that will end racism” arguement though. That didn’t work.
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  What’s happening at the / between these polars ?
The / is what they all have in common. e x p a n d the /
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  awesome to know! I have a long mental list of “stuff I need to get into one day” and Evangelion is going on the list. I’ve been tempted since finding and posting this to Youtube a few years ago (no idea how I found it or what I clipped it from) – and I really should, especially knowing now that this wasn’t just a one-off good bit. Thank you!
 Aw, I love introspective minimalist stuff. I’ve been perpetually nervous to get into *any* anime because it’s a definite commitment – and I barely let myself do anything but Doctor Who anymore. But a diet of this I’d do it.
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