120: Epistemology, causation & humankind 100% Certainty. My side of an interesting chat.

a truly alien life form though, we would not recognize anyway. We only recognize as life the things we can analogize in some way to ourselves. all ‘life’ is mere anthromophication. is that spelt rite? donutno.

there’s always been a small group of scientists pushing for acceptance of crystals as life forms. But we’re dumb. Until 1984, in the USA, it was acceptable medical opinion to consider babies as feeling no pain. Justified many an awful operation. Just a bundle of instincts they said. Mothers and fathers knew better, but hey, medical opinion said…

You may be right; but I believe we’re not even born yet. We’re still in womb-to-womb communication and have yet to leave the birth canal. Bright light up ahead? Spank in the ass. Cry dammit ’cause you’re here now and forget where you were – you got no idea what’s ahead.

I’m more the Heyoka – holy fools – sacred clowns. the contrary. Suits me.
village idiot works best though.
He’s also calcium. You can be unmoved while moving

not so hard and no mystical needed. just balance. center of gravity and such.

If you work from your center of consciousness (for me it’s about 7 inches behind my eyes and 2 inches down, I suspect), it’s not difficult to move unmoved. Keep spinning the gyroscope and walk up and down the stem.. and try not to get caught up in the mechisms.
[which is why I leave the room when “Arms of an Angel” aspca commercial would come on tv. – also when i stopped watching most of it – emotional manipulation pissed me off and I don’t like getitng angry about stuff.

ooh deja vu – some reason I remember seeing a Ryan Oliver say “triangulate position” before. Of course it’s just because [insert boring scientific explanation here].

Anyway – yeah, our overdependence upon cartesian coordinates for our mathematicals leads to blocky thinking but there’s nothing like a nice diagonal Cantor set to get ppl to go “oooh”…

Still, as long as I’m on flatland, it’s good to know how high I am.

[and to think, I’m not no need ]

I laugh on Pi day. The thing’s on two dimensions, and the number line is ‘one dimensional’ and if you bring TWO into ONE, it’s gonna FRACTURE somewhere. duh.

All silliness anyway. Universe is at least 3 dimensions + time. No such thing as a line except in our heads. “the universe is made of math” someone says and millions believe. *sigh*.

I like knowing where-when I stand in as many dimensions as possible for the same reason – defense. I’d like to know your theory; I love a good theory and I always learn something.

it’s as good a theory as any I’ve heard. The 5th would be similar to the timeslices of a viewing one’s life simultaneously from all perspectives yet from an outside-of-time perspective, hence frozen. then getting beyond that point.

I can see that ’cause there’s space and matter and frozen-ness, but no life nor energy nor perception of creation nor choice nor creation itself.

You’re finding it. You have a system of categorization of reality that suits you. It’s a thorough system and has explanatory powers. You can compress an awful lot in your system – and it’s a living, workable system.

well, categorization isn’t the right word. it expresses complex relationships and interactions.

You have your own language and you’re translating it into English as best you can. Believe me when I say I understand. I don’t need to be fluent in your own private language of reality to know the extreme difficulty of expressing concepts where there are no words or phrases that are adequate. It’s a pain in the ass honestly. Worth trying though. You communicated with me; that’s something

I wrote this a few weeks ago trying to describe what getting thoughts out is like – may or may not apply:

Getting ideas out is like trying to squeeze a tube of toothpaste through an unyielding pin hole to brush the teeth of a dragon before he has a chance to exhale

Regular people won’t get it, no. And thank you; I don’t know if I’m intelligent but I know the extreme difficulty of finding words where there’s absolutely none available.

At the library today, looking at the books, noticing the knowledge that was absent… absent from there, absent from schools, absent from society.. and where is it? We have spots for it even. It’s not learned. It’s not taught. We care about the things we’re supposed to care about and forget the rest.
But the rest is where all the good stuff is. In the gaps. People are scared of gaps. Spiders may be inside. A snake. They want the treasure but don’t want to put their head in the hole and look within.

lol that’s true. Always liked the concept of the devil is the one who shows you everything you ever wanted to know but you weren’t ready for. Don’t know if that’s true or not but I like it just the same.

Of course then that just makes the devil into older teenager brother showing little brother a 2 girls 1 cup when he asks about sex.

Well I’ve heard various different opinions on his ideas, some favorable, some not, but I tend to believe that our dependence upon the number line as it stands is flawed and requires a second or 3rd 0 to exist simultaneously. Reducing multiple dimensions to a single 0 is rather silly to me but then again, I don’t believe in the validity of points.

If we’re in a universe that’s, at _minimum_ 3D+Time (and likely more, I have some ideas there too ) but I’ll give basic physics a shot here; then mathematics itself needs all the expressive power as well if it can hope to be an effective mapping of the territory. It’s _useful_ as it stands, but it’ll need an upgrade eventually.

Yeah – I love the E8 Theory myself; it’s quite beautiful.

I don’t know if I’m in agreement or disagreement with it, but I like a good theory; I always learn something from it.

Yes – that’s what so beautiful about it ; a self-supporting structure that’s literally in need of ‘nothing’ to sustain itself.

It doesn’t even need nothing 🙂

I was playing with fictitious names a couple of years ago; a little poetry in the fictitious names database in Florida. It was “got nothing to lose” money. Anyway, for fun a registered a few names and made a chain of names that made me disappear entirely, linking up to a fictitious name of myself as well.

My favorite part of it is two names and how they’re linked:

I’m legally:

SOMEBODY
who is “Owned By:”
NOBODY

I wish I could think of clever ways to use it. Not criminally minded alas but I like the poetry.

I didn’t have much $ [didn’t have it to burn, was just at the end of my credit for now and didn’t care anymore] – but it was worth it for the symbolism.

I’m nobody.
I’m also somebody.
All in one person.
Who is also fictitious
and also real as well.

Well, we’re in a philosophy forum
I have a few symbols though. I have a favorite… let’s see if I can find it…

Oh the third dimension? I’m over here.

I’m the third dimension. The other things are just tricks in the 2nd dimension.

Some say the map is not the territory. But the map is the territory as well as isn’t, because of humans being involved in the system. Someone wrote the map. Someone experienced the territory. They’re not separate as long as we form the rest of the triangle.

yes – exactly; it’s a relationship of 3. As long as we’re on a territory, we’re mapping it. As long as we’re mapping it, we’re experiencing a territory (whether under our feet or mental terrain – it’s STILL terrain) – but there’s always us.

How stupid I think quantum physics theorists are when they get spooked that the subatomic wavlet/particles/whatever knew we were watching them.

Of course they did. We’re a part of the system. Yet, they still get spooked by it because they run under the ridiculous assumption that “they’re objective”. Hah. silliness.

Oh you might like this! You like trinities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efimov_state – I made a graphic painstakingly in some free cad software and animated it to illustrate the Efimov state. Might be something you’d like too.

I saw the image in my head when I was researching the efimov state – when three small bodies interact in a particularly unique way where they suddenly produce these SHELLS at particular expansions from itself… recursively getting smaller and getting bigger at certain intervals – right up to the macroscopic level.

Really awesome stuff. Total Trinity stuff. You get three things in balance, and something magical really happens in the ‘middle’ where there _should_ be nothing. There’s not nothing.

So I made my only contribution to Wikipedia there and they like it.

When I was going through an all encompassing theory, I collected them at http://system-of-systems.com – I abandoned it when I realized it was taking me over.

But the short of it was:
The Leaky Triangle.
There’s no perfect forms. Just _almost_.
We try to patch up the leaks in the triangle. But we can’t. The triangle always leaks something. A circle is an infinite series of triangles. So what does it leak? numbers to more and more decimal places. It’ll never stop. The triangle leaks. It leaks a force, it leaks _some_ evidence that it’s there, otherwise we wouldn’t know about it.
anyway. That’s my ‘big theory’. I didn’t abandon it per se, just knew I couldn’t get any further so I let it be.

But.. the triangle and the circles alike leak. Otherwise, we would have no connection to the sacred.

It would be in its own realm (sacred means “set aside”).

It has to leak _something_. How else would we know?

Yes. Now project lines from your computer screen to your eyeballs and into your brain.

Then connect more lines through the Internet, through my screen to my eyes into my brain.

We’re connected, through time and space. But it’s so everyday and common yet we experience it all of the time.

It’s not an abstract connection. It’s physical, tangible. That makes it amazng to me. We’re connected in space as well as across time. Our brains are literally touching through photons being passed by electrons like a long line of basketball players passing a ball, but it’s simultaneous, two way and crosses any perceived lag of time.

The fact that I’m writing this now, you’re reading it later, doesn’t matter.

It’s a physical connection across time.

It only destroys nature if we abuse it. But experience is not abuse when one just allows things to be and enjoys the flow. Understanding doesn’t destroy, only misapplied knowledge.

How can you not be a part of change? Stagnation is illusion.

Stagnant waters are creators of life. If you’re ever in a rut, there’s new life forming you can’t see yet. Makes quiet times, down times, even bored times the most valuable times of all at times.

dark night of the soul is valuable. I don’t like the emotional turmoils that sometimes goes along with it, as recognition of the parts where you’re bound when you once felt in control is positively frightening and depressing… all the 7 stages of grief are there, as it were. It’s not the only way but it’s a way.

There’s that too. Modern psychological formulations of it for secular acceptance is but a translation of ancient forms that were well known throughout time.

squiggles across time.

I like squiggles.
I tried to trace back the letter Q, how it closes your throat with your tongue to your uvula.
Fascinating history.
Goes back to Egyptian times at least.

Had a theory about a structure in the brain I saw that looks like a mouth and uvula – right above your neck. Controls the flow of spinal fluid in and out of your brain.

Looked like a Q as well.

Had some theory about death and life, stop and go, Quiet and Quick and Quinessence and how it all relates. I was satisfied but I enjoy linguistic origins stuff.

Your spine is a second throat but it goes both ways. Mostly up. Your body throws up into your head and your brain digests what it gets. It also swallows back down again, sending movements to your muscles to perform actions.

Human physiology; they kinda figured it out hundreds of years ago. Gave us all the phrases relating the brain and “eat your words”. “digesting thoughts”, “chewing on ideas”, etc.

[note: ran above text through DDC: